Comments on: Some truly appalling reporting of science by the BBC http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813 Truth, falsehood and evidence: investigations of dubious and dishonest science Wed, 08 Sep 2010 13:44:06 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: isobelmat http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813&cpage=1#comment-6495 isobelmat Fri, 30 Apr 2010 11:52:20 +0000 http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813#comment-6495 Erm...I am a nurse. And have been 'armed with a prescription pad'. Which, I might add, I did not ask for. I did not become a nurse to give out medications, my uses/talents/skills lie elsewhere. I had no choice as our esteemed managers bowed to pressure from GPs to releive them of the arduous task of signing pre-printed prescriptions by the dozen every day. Not my call. However, one of my learned GP colleagues did get rather irate when I suggested to parents of a 10 day old breast fed baby who he had diagnosed as having colic (what?) that they might consider NOT giving the calpol he had prescribed. It took the appropriate page in the BNF to shut him up. I am also an acupuncturist. Again, I am dismayed at my allopathic colleagues who display ignorance and arrogance in their claim to be a more 'proper' practitioner than I. There's buffonary and malpactice on all sides, as well as an astounding lack of intellect and discernment. On All Sides. Erm…I am a nurse. And have been ‘armed with a prescription pad’. Which, I might add, I did not ask for. I did not become a nurse to give out medications, my uses/talents/skills lie elsewhere. I had no choice as our esteemed managers bowed to pressure from GPs to releive them of the arduous task of signing pre-printed prescriptions by the dozen every day. Not my call. However, one of my learned GP colleagues did get rather irate when I suggested to parents of a 10 day old breast fed baby who he had diagnosed as having colic (what?) that they might consider NOT giving the calpol he had prescribed. It took the appropriate page in the BNF to shut him up. I am also an acupuncturist. Again, I am dismayed at my allopathic colleagues who display ignorance and arrogance in their claim to be a more ‘proper’ practitioner than I. There’s buffonary and malpactice on all sides, as well as an astounding lack of intellect and discernment. On All Sides.

]]> By: Haighy http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813&cpage=1#comment-6126 Haighy Mon, 08 Mar 2010 15:39:07 +0000 http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813#comment-6126 @DangerCon <blockquote>"So why would anyone wish to take an NSAID when diclofenac has serious cardiovascular complications (see latest GP software systems) when there is a safe and effective natural alternative.You’d have to be pretty arrogant and narrow minded to do that (see this website)."</blockquote> I'd be interested in the website you mention but the link doesn't work. I'd love to check out what this safe and natural alternative is. If it's natural, it *must* be good. Like anthrax and dog poo and polonium and ricin and neutron stars... Is it also as effective and well understood as ibuprofen/diclofenac/naproxen/aspirin? This is great news if so, as we have needed safer NSAIDs for years. @DangerCon

“So why would anyone wish to take an NSAID when diclofenac has serious cardiovascular complications (see latest GP software systems) when there is a safe and effective natural alternative.You’d have to be pretty arrogant and narrow minded to do that (see this website).”

I’d be interested in the website you mention but the link doesn’t work. I’d love to check out what this safe and natural alternative is. If it’s natural, it *must* be good. Like anthrax and dog poo and polonium and ricin and neutron stars…

Is it also as effective and well understood as ibuprofen/diclofenac/naproxen/aspirin? This is great news if so, as we have needed safer NSAIDs for years.

]]> By: Allo V Psycho http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813&cpage=1#comment-6121 Allo V Psycho Sat, 06 Mar 2010 08:54:40 +0000 http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813#comment-6121 “Perhaps you’d like to answer NIMH’s point about some of the sources of funding that Exeter’s received? OK. And you were "shocked and stunned", Dangerous Con? It must require a little effort to work up that particular frenzy, surely? And since it isn't Exeter University that is described as receiving the funding, you haven't even read the NIMH release itself properly in your rush to be stunned. To repeat in part what James8855 said above: PCMD is not “a centre for research in complementary and alternative medicine based at Exeter University”. NIMH are wildly incorrect on that, and such ignorance is not reassuring. It is a large and successful medical school, jointly part of the Universities of Exeter and Plymouth, but also with an independent existence*. PCMD has a wide range of world class research, including ground breaking work on diabetes. I would be surprised if there wasn’t some pharmaceutical company funded research taking place somewhere within the medical school as a whole. However, unless you take the view that any pharmaceutical funding anywhere makes the whole of an organisation’s research in every area unreliable (i.e. every researcher in every medical school and University in the UK is corrupt) , that is irrelevant to Edzard Ernst. As far as I know**, he has not received any funding whatsoever from large drug companies, and the NIMH statement appears to me (as fair comment.....) to be an attempt to smear him. And one of the listed ‘funders’ is Boots! Those famous purveyors of alternative nonsense – “We don’t care if our products work, as long as you are stupid enough to buy them”. By your logic, he must be shockingly and stunningly in thrall to homoeopathic interests. After all, he has a homoeopathic background. Lastly, what is it with prescribing nurses? Are you feeling a little, well, jealous, that they can prescribe things a herbalist can’t? *slightly oddly (and I think ill advisedly), although staff are line managed by and work wholly within the Medical School (and might be working in, say, the Royal Cornwall Hospital in Truro), technically their contracts of employment are issued by either Exeter or Plymouth Universities, which may explain some of the confusion re Exeter, Pymouth and PCMD. This is why the Exeter VC could be influenced by the PoW to give Ernst grief. **Go over to the Bad Science Forums and PM me from there, and I’ll explain why I was in a position to know. “Perhaps you’d like to answer NIMH’s point about some of the sources of funding that Exeter’s received? OK. And you were “shocked and stunned”, Dangerous Con? It must require a little effort to work up that particular frenzy, surely? And since it isn’t Exeter University that is described as receiving the funding, you haven’t even read the NIMH release itself properly in your rush to be stunned.

To repeat in part what James8855 said above:
PCMD is not “a centre for research in complementary and alternative medicine based at Exeter University”. NIMH are wildly incorrect on that, and such ignorance is not reassuring. It is a large and successful medical school, jointly part of the Universities of Exeter and Plymouth, but also with an independent existence*. PCMD has a wide range of world class research, including ground breaking work on diabetes. I would be surprised if there wasn’t some pharmaceutical company funded research taking place somewhere within the medical school as a whole. However, unless you take the view that any pharmaceutical funding anywhere makes the whole of an organisation’s research in every area unreliable (i.e. every researcher in every medical school and University in the UK is corrupt) , that is irrelevant to Edzard Ernst. As far as I know**, he has not received any funding whatsoever from large drug companies, and the NIMH statement appears to me (as fair comment…..) to be an attempt to smear him.

And one of the listed ‘funders’ is Boots! Those famous purveyors of alternative nonsense – “We don’t care if our products work, as long as you are stupid enough to buy them”. By your logic, he must be shockingly and stunningly in thrall to homoeopathic interests. After all, he has a homoeopathic background.
Lastly, what is it with prescribing nurses? Are you feeling a little, well, jealous, that they can prescribe things a herbalist can’t?

*slightly oddly (and I think ill advisedly), although staff are line managed by and work wholly within the Medical School (and might be working in, say, the Royal Cornwall Hospital in Truro), technically their contracts of employment are issued by either Exeter or Plymouth Universities, which may explain some of the confusion re Exeter, Pymouth and PCMD. This is why the Exeter VC could be influenced by the PoW to give Ernst grief.

**Go over to the Bad Science Forums and PM me from there, and I’ll explain why I was in a position to know.

]]> By: Dr Aust http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813&cpage=1#comment-6119 Dr Aust Fri, 05 Mar 2010 20:25:55 +0000 http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813#comment-6119 I think Allo V's last response to DangerCon says it all - nice one. Anyway, as a mere <i>physiologist</i> I think I've decided that I shall let DangerCon's responses speak for themselves, as s/he makes my points about herbalists' blind spots far better than I could myself. I think Allo V’s last response to DangerCon says it all – nice one.

Anyway, as a mere physiologist I think I’ve decided that I shall let DangerCon’s responses speak for themselves, as s/he makes my points about herbalists’ blind spots far better than I could myself.

]]> By: Dangerous Conventional http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813&cpage=1#comment-6118 Dangerous Conventional Fri, 05 Mar 2010 19:46:19 +0000 http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813#comment-6118 Perhaps you'd like to answer NIMH's point about some of the sources of funding that Exeter's received. I was shocked and stunned.As for Ernst's review of herbal medicine Postgraduate Medical Journal (2007;83:633–637) it was hardly in the Lancet or JAMA. Yet a positive review on Boswellia Ernst E., (2008) Frankincense: systematic review. BMJ 337:a2813. was in a high impact publication. So why would anyone wish to take an NSAID when diclofenac has serious cardiovascular complications (see latest GP software systems) when there is a safe and effective natural alternative.You'd have to be pretty arrogant and narrow minded to do that (see this website). Herbalists don't have the diagnostic skills of a GP (you see I can criticise alternative medicine) but the training is of a surprising high standard. Far better than say a nurse armed and dangerous with a prescription pad. Perhaps you’d like to answer NIMH’s point about some of the sources of funding that Exeter’s received. I was shocked and stunned.As for Ernst’s review of herbal medicine Postgraduate Medical Journal (2007;83:633–637) it was hardly in the Lancet or JAMA.
Yet a positive review on Boswellia Ernst E., (2008) Frankincense: systematic review. BMJ 337:a2813. was in a high impact publication. So why would anyone wish to take an NSAID when diclofenac has serious cardiovascular complications (see latest GP software systems) when there is a safe and effective natural alternative.You’d have to be pretty arrogant and narrow minded to do that (see this website).
Herbalists don’t have the diagnostic skills of a GP (you see I can criticise alternative medicine) but the training is of a surprising high standard. Far better than say a nurse armed and dangerous with a prescription pad.

]]> By: Anti-D http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813&cpage=1#comment-6116 Anti-D Fri, 05 Mar 2010 14:49:24 +0000 http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813#comment-6116 McIntyre, who is also a former president of the NIMH, has misinformed herbalists for years about regulation and has actively opposed any open debate (let alone a democratic vote) on the matter. Prof Pittilo (who recently passed away) was told by McIntyre that all herbalists supported regulation! Re numbers: I'd say that a quarter oppose regulation, half are keeping their heads down/sitting on the fence, while a quarter support regulation. McIntyre, who is also a former president of the NIMH, has misinformed herbalists for years about regulation and has actively opposed any open debate (let alone a democratic vote) on the matter. Prof Pittilo (who recently passed away) was told by McIntyre that all herbalists supported regulation!

Re numbers: I’d say that a quarter oppose regulation, half are keeping their heads down/sitting on the fence, while a quarter support regulation.

]]> By: David Colquhoun http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813&cpage=1#comment-6115 David Colquhoun Fri, 05 Mar 2010 14:17:06 +0000 http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813#comment-6115 @Anti-D That;s a good point 9though I promise that I didn't vote myself). Have you any idea how many herbalists support/oppose the McIntyre line? @Anti-D
That;s a good point 9though I promise that I didn’t vote myself).

Have you any idea how many herbalists support/oppose the McIntyre line?

]]> By: Anti-D http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813&cpage=1#comment-6114 Anti-D Fri, 05 Mar 2010 14:11:22 +0000 http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813#comment-6114 DC, you've got it wrong on 2500 herbalists signing the anti-regulation petition. The petition is open to the general public and overseas signatories too. If there were 2500 herbalists against regulation, it would be nearly all of them! (Which makes one wonder why government proposed regulation to start with...). DC, you’ve got it wrong on 2500 herbalists signing the anti-regulation petition. The petition is open to the general public and overseas signatories too. If there were 2500 herbalists against regulation, it would be nearly all of them! (Which makes one wonder why government proposed regulation to start with…).

]]> By: Allo V Psycho http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813&cpage=1#comment-6113 Allo V Psycho Fri, 05 Mar 2010 13:34:37 +0000 http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813#comment-6113 @DangerCon who wrote "And I’m a pharmacist and former NHS prescribing adviser for 3 PCTs. Think I might know a little bit more about the efficacy and safety of medicines than a physiologist, don’t you think". Well, that's as arrogant an appeal to authority as ever I read, especially since Dr Aust's perfectly legitimate original point could have been made by anyone, irrespective of their expertise. In fact, from your postings here, I do not think you have a very secure grasp of the safety and efficacy of medicines. On the contrary, you seem to have an obsessive need to focus on the hazards of rational medicine, without considering the benefits, and, I think, a corresponding enthusiasm for irrational medicine. Qualifications are of little value without reflection and self awareness. Possession of an 'idee fixe' can trump rationality, as we can see from the existence of medically qualified homoeopaths. In the (vain) hope of returning to Dr Aust's topic, do you think that NIMH members all have diagnostic and clinical training at a degree level comparable to that of “orthodox” medical practitioners? p.s. I am not even a physiologist. @DangerCon who wrote “And I’m a pharmacist and former NHS prescribing adviser for 3 PCTs. Think I might know a little bit more about the efficacy and safety of medicines than a physiologist, don’t you think”.
Well, that’s as arrogant an appeal to authority as ever I read, especially since Dr Aust’s perfectly legitimate original point could have been made by anyone, irrespective of their expertise.
In fact, from your postings here, I do not think you have a very secure grasp of the safety and efficacy of medicines. On the contrary, you seem to have an obsessive need to focus on the hazards of rational medicine, without considering the benefits, and, I think, a corresponding enthusiasm for irrational medicine. Qualifications are of little value without reflection and self awareness. Possession of an ‘idee fixe’ can trump rationality, as we can see from the existence of medically qualified homoeopaths.
In the (vain) hope of returning to Dr Aust’s topic, do you think that NIMH members all have diagnostic and clinical training at a degree level comparable to that of “orthodox” medical practitioners?

p.s. I am not even a physiologist.

]]> By: Bogusman http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813&cpage=1#comment-6112 Bogusman Fri, 05 Mar 2010 08:19:43 +0000 http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813#comment-6112 I gave up listening to You and Yours many years ago after it had done a few pieces that reflected my own areas of expertise. It proved itself to be run by incompetents with no interest in anything but sensational reporting. Obviously it may have improved over the years but I never felt it worth investing the time to find out. Unfortunately I suppose some people do still listen so it's important that someone tries to keep them in check. I gave up listening to You and Yours many years ago after it had done a few pieces that reflected my own areas of expertise. It proved itself to be run by incompetents with no interest in anything but sensational reporting. Obviously it may have improved over the years but I never felt it worth investing the time to find out. Unfortunately I suppose some people do still listen so it’s important that someone tries to keep them in check.

]]> By: Dangerous Conventional http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813&cpage=1#comment-6109 Dangerous Conventional Thu, 04 Mar 2010 22:42:02 +0000 http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813#comment-6109 Dr Aust, And I'm a pharmacist and former NHS prescribing adviser for 3 PCTs. Think I might know a little bit more about the efficacy and safety of medicines than a physiologist, don't you think. Just been to a pharmacy meeting and the issue of how awful the quality of hospital discharges are was raised.I frequently audit them and they are horrific. Makes the discussion about homeopathy seem rather futile.Now that's something that the BBC should be reporting. Dr Aust,
And I’m a pharmacist and former NHS prescribing adviser for 3 PCTs. Think I might know a little bit more about the efficacy and safety of medicines than a physiologist, don’t you think.
Just been to a pharmacy meeting and the issue of how awful the quality of hospital discharges are was raised.I frequently audit them and they are horrific. Makes the discussion about homeopathy seem rather futile.Now that’s something that the BBC should be reporting.

]]> By: Dr Aust http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813&cpage=1#comment-6107 Dr Aust Thu, 04 Mar 2010 21:06:08 +0000 http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813#comment-6107 Actually I'm a physiologist, DangerCon. The point is that I <b>don't</b> think I am a medical practitioner... ...unlike, it seems, the people at the NIMH. A delusion, incidentally, that they seem to share with a lot of chiropractors. Actually I’m a physiologist, DangerCon.

The point is that I don’t think I am a medical practitioner…

…unlike, it seems, the people at the NIMH.

A delusion, incidentally, that they seem to share with a lot of chiropractors.

]]> By: Dangerous Conventional http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813&cpage=1#comment-6105 Dangerous Conventional Thu, 04 Mar 2010 19:02:05 +0000 http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813#comment-6105 Trust me! I'm a pharmacologist/biochemist. Trust me! I’m a pharmacologist/biochemist.

]]> By: Professor Terry Hamblin http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813&cpage=1#comment-6104 Professor Terry Hamblin Thu, 04 Mar 2010 19:02:04 +0000 http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813#comment-6104 I don't often listen to the BBC, its reports are horribly biased, but I did here this programme. I have never heard a more one-sided account. This was the Devil versus God with the Devil in the studio being interviewed by a leser demon and God allowed to phone in but being cut off when He quotes Scripture! I don’t often listen to the BBC, its reports are horribly biased, but I did here this programme. I have never heard a more one-sided account. This was the Devil versus God with the Devil in the studio being interviewed by a leser demon and God allowed to phone in but being cut off when He quotes Scripture!

]]> By: James8855 http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813&cpage=1#comment-6102 James8855 Thu, 04 Mar 2010 17:58:55 +0000 http://www.dcscience.net/?p=2813#comment-6102 From the same NIMH press release: "“2. The Peninsula Medical School is a centre for research in complementary and alternative medicine based at Exeter University." The Peninsula Medical School is, well, just that: a medical school, and one that is part of the University of Plymouth as well as the University of Exeter. It appears it also has a far, far wider research remit than the press release suggests: http://www.pcmd.ac.uk/research.php While these two errors of fact do not on their own demolish the views expressed in the rest of the press release - views which I freely admit I do not agree with - I do wonder at any organisation which does not take the time to avoid such simple errors. (And just for the record, I have no links with this medical school whatsoever) From the same NIMH press release:

““2. The Peninsula Medical School is a centre for research in complementary and alternative medicine based at Exeter University.”

The Peninsula Medical School is, well, just that: a medical school, and one that is part of the University of Plymouth as well as the University of Exeter.

It appears it also has a far, far wider research remit than the press release suggests: http://www.pcmd.ac.uk/research.php

While these two errors of fact do not on their own demolish the views expressed in the rest of the press release – views which I freely admit I do not agree with – I do wonder at any organisation which does not take the time to avoid such simple errors.

(And just for the record, I have no links with this medical school whatsoever)

]]>